We need to quit our nation building now, but we also need to act in self defense in preventing Iran from producing nuclear weapons…

It looks as though Iran is getting some pressure to abandon its project to create nuclear weapons (Iran denies it is for weapons, claiming it is for electricity generation only — few if any believe that).

The Israeli defense minister let it be known that time is running short, in the Israeli’s opinion, to do something. The word is, come spring if Iran has not backed off, Israel will strike.

And it seems as if the Obama administration is in on the pressure game, with Defense Secretary Leon Panetta confirming to a news reporter that the Israelis have said as much. The U.S. it is said tried unsuccessfully to get the Israelis to agree to give the economic sanctions more time — they replied there is little time left.

The U.S. will be blamed whether it is involved or directly involved or not.

You will note the Obama administration does not seem to be telling Israel no (even though we probably could not stop Israel from acting, certainly we have some fair amount of leverage over that nation).

I had begun to write a post about being against our nation-building efforts in the Middle East. But stopping Iran from getting the bomb, so to speak, has nothing to do with nation building and everything to do with self defense of the U.S. and the free world.

There had been a joint military exercise in Israel between their forces and ours planned but it was cancelled. Many speculate that is because Israel had more pressing matters to take care of and did not need the complication of American troops being in the way.

It is a difficult situation or problem, that is, telling another nation it cannot have nuclear weapons when we along with other nations have them. But we cannot let the proliferation of nuclear weapons continue. We survived the nuclear saber rattling of the Cold War, probably because our adversary the Soviet Union did not want a nuclear exchange any more than we did — an accident could have easily happened, though.

Iran is run by religious zealots and political mad men who might do anything. It must be stopped.

I have often written that I think the warnings ought to be done in secret to let Iran save face and allow it to abandon the nuclear weapons program on its own. But this public display of pressure may be needed too.

I would like to see the president of the United States make a speech and say that the U.S. will not allow the proliferation of nuclear weapons and leave it at that, no specific threat, you decide what we mean Iran.

Actions will eventually speak louder than words, and Iran needs to know action may come soon.

I changed my mind about how I would lead into this blog piece after hearing about the latest prediction on a strike on Iran, as I understand it, first reported by the Washington Post and picked up by other outlets, and used as the lead into the CBS Evening News, at least on the broadcast I heard on radio.

And now back to what I had originally intended to put forth:

Just began reading a story on the New York Times site about a Marine unit penetrating deep into the Afghan hinterlands where no NATO forces had ventured before, where the Taliban has had complete control. In the process, one Marine was seriously injured while trying to dismantle and IED and another injured as well. But bringing along some of the native government troops with them, they managed to plant the Afghan national flag.

Well, that’s all well and good, but I would call that “nation building”.

And that is one place where I am in entire agreement with Ron Paul. Under our constitution or at least under our constitution combined with the clear intentions of our founding fathers, we, the United States of America, have no business building nations other than our own. It is far too costly in blood and treasure and not our business anyway.

We feel compelled to hold on in Afghanistan, even though the Obama administration has made it known that it plans to essentially turn the brunt of the effort over to the Afghans come 2013 — but still have U.S. troops remain as backup, I guess –  because we feel we have to finish what we started, otherwise the effort, to include thousands dead and wounded, will have been in vain.

Before I go into 20/20 hindsight, I want to say it is my opinion that we should turn it all over to the Afghan government now and rid ourselves of the burden. If the Taliban take it all back, so be it. If the Taliban start threatening us somehow, we should go directly after them in what ever way feasible.

Now back to the 20/20 hindsight:

The 9/11 attack on the United States, the equivalent of Pearl Harbor, was essentially launched from Afghanistan where the late Osama Bin Laden and his Al Qaeda force received aid and comfort from the Taliban who ran Afghanistan at the time. We made the decision to invade Afghanistan after it refused to turn over Bin Laden and continued to protect Al Qaeda.

We should have gone in full bore, rounded up Bin Laden and all the Al Qaeda we could, took over for a time and supervised the setting up of a new government — yes nation building to a degree — and then at the appropriate time left. And I would not have suggested too long of a time — probably far less time than we, along with allied forces, spent supervising things in Japan and Germany. The populations and cultures of those two nations seemed to take to the forming of democratic and non-belligerent governments. This is not the case in Afghanistan. It is hostile territory with a backwards, tribal culture. Some things are not worth the bother — Afghanistan is not.

I say keep the aircraft carriers and the troops ready to respond where need be for the defense of the United States and its true interests (the free flow of goods, to include oil, being among them), but let us not get bogged down in trying to recreate another people’s culture and government.

If the presidential campaign were a one-issue event I might well vote for Ron Paul.

Neither Democratic president Obama nor any of the Republicans likely to become president are apt to change the status quo, although to his credit, Obama does seem to ever-so-slowly be winding down the costly and for the most part futile efforts in the Middle East.

Like I say, if electing a president was composed of just one issue, I might vote for Ron Paul.

But life is complex, whether the Republicans understand that or not.

Huntsman right on in supporting Iran strike…

UPDATE (10-12-11)

When I posted this the news of the alleged (and I say alleged — it sounds iffy to me) Iranian plot to Kill the Saudi Arabian ambassador in the United States had not come out yet. I’d have to know more about it all before making a comment on what the U.S. should do about that. Certainly there has to be clear proof that it was a bona-fide Iranian plot (remember Bush and WMDs). But whatever, actions (on our part) speak louder than words.

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I wholeheartedly agree with long-shot GOP presidential candidate Jon Huntsman who is quoted as saying that a pre-emptive strike on Iran would be appropriate if it looked like that rogue nation was at all close to getting the nuclear weapons capability (or weapons of mass destruction). The report said that while overall he is calling for pull back of troops and trimming down or “right sizing” of the defense establishment, he would be in favor of hitting Iran.

To me it is scary enough that in my lifetime I lived through the 50s and 60s when it looked as though we could be hit by nuclear-laden missiles at any time from the old USSR, possibly out of human error even, and it is worrying enough that so many nations already have nuclear capability and some are our sworn enemies. And Pakistan has them and it is nominally our ally, but in reality, not so much, and Al Qaeda or some other such group, might easily get its hands on the weapons — and then what?

My idea, as I have blogged before, is that we tell Iran (or any other nation we are concerned about) in private that we will no longer tolerate them holding weapons of mass destruction, thus giving the nation a chance to dismantle its program and save face by letting it claim it did so on its own. But if the nation does not comply — we strike.

It is not a matter of fairness or pushing our power around; it is a matter of survival, not only of the United States, but the world.

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The story about the Huntsman remarks:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/65531.html

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P.s.

Huntsman does not seem to be getting any traction in the GOP race for nomination. Romney seems the only likely candidate, but he suffers from solid blocks of resistance within the GOP. Herman Cain has won a couple of GOP straw polls and is getting a lot of buzz. I know nothing about him, except I saw one clip in which he seemed feisty, with a good sense of humor. He’s a black man running for president who refuses to follow the traditional or conventional path of social engineering expected from someone in his position (or color). He did criticize Perry over that flap about the use of “N” word on a sign at a hunting lodge his family used, but he stresses work over social programs, carrying the standard GOP pro-business line. A black man vs. a black man for president of the United States — yes that would be interesting — a true test of residual racism in the U.S. The racist voter would have nowhere to go (what would the voting numbers be?).

Sorcery charges in Iran portend what could happen in U.S. if religious fundamentalists take control…

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black or accusing it of black magic, I can hardly take the folks in Iran’s higher ruling echelons seriously when they have political rivals arrested for practicing “sorcery”.

It seems that the slightly eccentric President Mahmoud Amadinejad, noted for his idiotic pronouncements and tirades, his opposition to the survival of Israel and his denial that the Holocaust ever happened, his looking as if he forgot to shave, and his penchant for wearing what most would call a light work jacket, instead  of the customary coat and tie, or even robes in his part of the world, is having a feud with Iran’s supreme religious leader Ayatollah Khamenei (not to be confused with his predecessor of a similar name), who claims that he, the Ayatollah, is the final arbiter of all things political as well things religious and cultural (in other words everything).

So without getting into all the details, Akmadinejad has seen some of his cohorts arrested for practicing sorcery.

Being able to level a charge of criminal sorcery would be a handy tool to have here in the United States for a political rival who feared his or her opponent’s charisma and ability to mesmerize audiences. For instance, Sarah Palin seems to manage to captivate certain  audiences (ignorant though they may be). Maybe she’s a witch. Maybe The Donald is a warlock. Have them locked up for sorcery. Or maybe they in turn would level charges of black magic against our first black president (that would be Barack Obama, not Bill Clinton).

It seems a little strange and ironic to me that the supreme religious leader in Iran would accuse anyone of practicing sorcery. I mean, I do not want to offend anyone who considers themselves religious or anyone who is a religious leader on any level. I have to explain that I personally cannot claim to be religious, even though I often invoke the name of God and even have a kind of latent belief in some type of holy (or higher) being and because of cultural upbringing lean toward Christianity. But to be a regious leader, such as the Ayatollah, or even the Pope, seems like, on its face, must require the belief in the supernatural by both the leader and the followers who recognize the leader.

So one sorcerer accuses another of being a sorcerer.

On the serious side, the goings on in Iran point to the dangers of having a religion-controlled government, a theocracy, or even just an official religion.

It is not a stretch to say the same or similar goings on could happen here in the United States if the religious right ever got complete control (they have made serious inroads into the Republican Party, with potential candidates feeling it necessary to make their appearances and kowtows before fundamentalist Christian gatherings).

To take out Iran or not to, that could be the question and, no Sarah you can’t see it from your front porch…

The paradox the United States finds itself in trying to be or at least preach that it is a peace-loving nation is that it is also at this time the world’s only super power but that super power means little if it cannot be used.

Put another way, while it is good to stand up to bullies, one has to keep in mind the bully may call one’s bluff and one better be prepared to put up or shut up.

I detest war or any type of armed aggression, but I also feel somewhat secure in this dangerous world by being a citizen of the world’s super power.

So I say all of this in regard to an article I just read (well by now some hours ago) in the Huffington Post (and entity that kind of represents Rush Limburger Cheese in reverse) that quotes Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina who is on the senate’s armed services committee as saying the U.S. ought not only to take out Iran’s nuclear capability but its military (Navy, I think the article emphasized) and Revolutionary Guard too and maybe give its citizens a chance to install a new government (presumably friendly to the West).

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The article, which is not exclusive to the Huffington Post, is as follows: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/06/lindsey-graham-calls-for-strike-on-iran_n_779997.html

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Keeping in mind the Obama administration claims all options are currently open on Iran, Graham says many Republicans would support tough action, beyond sanctions, by the Democratic administration.

Personally, to me it seems that when you have certified nut cases, such as president Amadinejad and the mullahs, or hoolahs or whoever they call themselves, in charge of a nation and they threaten to among other things wipe out Israel, and sentence people to death by stoning, and deny basic human rights to their own citizens and threaten movement of the world’s oil supply we cannot sit idly by and let them gain the power to really cause damage.

As far as what they do to their own citizens, I am for the most part only in sympathy with the wronged – the citizens of Iran are really the only ones who can take care of that problem, except that if such a nation gets to join the nuclear weapons club it could inflict its horrendous ways on parts of or all of the rest of the world.

The U.S. really opened Pandora’s box when it created the A bomb, but someone else would have done it eventually — most likely Nazi Germany, which was close to it during World War II.

It’s kind of tricky in a diplomatic sense having one’s own nuclear arsenal and then arguing that others should not get their own, but that’s the cost of survival.

Hopefully a military strike on Iran will not be necessary. I think the less said about it by our government the better, lest we box ourselves into a corner. Still it’s good of Graham to put that out there as a message to Iran and even to the American people, who could actually have a chance to voice their opinion yay or nay, via opinion polls and comments to their elected representatives and such,  rather than find out one morning we had another Bay of Pigs, long in the planning, but very secret, at least to the American people, maybe not to Castro, who easily put it down and embarrassed the heck out of the U.S.

My main concern about possible military action, besides the obvious that people can get hurt, is that it would require much planning and have clear goals and not turn into some kind of long, drawn out nation building fiasco.

And can you imagine Sarah Palin in the White House having to make such a decision?

First she would have to locate Iran on the map (hint to Sarah: no you can‘t see it from your front porch).

P.s.

Sen. Graham has served active duty in the Air Force and has seen some time in the war zones of the Middle East while serving in reserve status as a lawyer. He currently is a colonel in the Air Force Reserve. While I do not see that he has any actual combat experience, at least he wears the uniform — I only mention this because so many who advocate military action never have offered their services in that regard, although certainly military service is not a requirement to have an opinion or to hold office, nor should it be.

We need to regroup in the struggle between East and West…

I wrote this the other night and due to a continuing problem with my computer, especially when I’m mobile, that is remote, away from a landline connection, I could not post it. I note this because as I was driving today (which is now already yesterday on my blog time) and listening to the Ronn Owens show on KGO Radio, San Francisco they were talking about the Saudi eye-for-an-eye method, among other things, and many people were appalled as I was at such backwardness. Also, while the thesis of this post is that we should pull back from the Middle East (I guess that’s what it is, anyway), I also remember now that in the real world what happens is that if one power draws back another steps in. In this case, the Russians are apparently helping the Iranians with their nuclear program. Even though they are supposedly trying to safeguard from the Iranians getting bomb capability and only helping them to create power — well, if you really think that will be the case…. And if we withdraw from Afghanistan, others will step in, to include the Chinese, and grab the abundant minerals that are supposed to be there. And anyway, now that I’ve written this long preamble, I realize that I was writing about the ongoing struggle of East vs. West, so I don’t mean we should quit, rather we need to be more circumspect in our actions going forward.

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First it’s the execution of young lovers  by stoning them to death for the “crime” of trying to elope, done at the direction of the Taliban in Afghanistan; that was a few days ago.

Now today I read that our nominal ally Saudi Arabia may punish a man who took after another with a meat cleaver and left him paralyzed by having doctors paralyze him, the attacker, by damaging his spinal cord.

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ADD 1:

And we mustn’t forget the pending case against a 43-year old Iranian mother who was sentenced to be stoned to death but who now, thanks to the mercy of the Islamic government of Iran,  may only face death by hanging — she is accused of being an adulterer, something she claims she was forced into confessing by means of torture (well, the West, or at least the U.S., is not completely off the hook on that one — i.e. our torture of Islamic prisoners — make ‘em talk, do anything to make ‘em talk!

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While having to note our own aberrations from civility, I have to wonder: Why do we even deal with cultures who behave in such barbaric ways?

Yes, once upon a time our ancestors in the Western World did things like this, but we have moved beyond this, for the most part, executions in the U.S. notwithstanding.

In Afghanistan the latest stoning was done at the behest of the Taliban insurgents who were once in control of that country and who well may take over completely again. While some in Afghanistan may not approve of the Taliban action, from what I read many Afghans do — it’s part of their religion and culture.

I know we, the U.S., need oil in the region, and I know we can’t just avoid everyone and everything in the world because it does not always agree with our sensibilities, but it seems we should draw the line somewhere.

I am uncomfortable with the cozy relationship we have with Saudi Arabia. By being on its side we support cruel social practices such as administering justice via goulash operations, amputations and a severing of a spinal cord?

And I always recall that the 9/11 attackers were Saudi Arabians, although supposedly not sponsored by that kingdom itself — but it does seem strange.

There is an ongoing culture clash between East and West.

I for one hope the West wins.

But I am not sure taking the East head on is the way to go. I fear we are being sucked in:

The war in Iraq that is over, but not really over; the quagmire that is Afghanistan; the taunting by Iran, building a nuclear capability and thumbing its nose at us and threatening all the while to annihilate Israel, which for better or worse we are sworn to protect; the temptation for the U.S. or Israel or both to pre-emptively attack Iran, thus threatening global war; the ongoing unprecedented flooding of Pakistan, which adds to the chaos of a nation that has the bomb and is under internal threat by Muslim and anti-American extremists.

It seems to me that we are being played the sucker by our enemies and with the aid of mother nature in the case of Pakistan.

Instead of constantly shifting our forces from one place to the other in the Middle East, we might do better to pull back and regroup into a more defensive posture.

There are far more of them (the hordes of the East) than there are us (the civilized West).

At one time I am sure that the thinking was that we would slowly but surly transform the backward East into a modern civilized (western-styled) society. But while some in the East want to and do follow our ways, a larger number may not.

The Crusades of old were about religion.

The struggle today has religion in it, but it is more about survival of civilization as we in the West know it.

We do face a threat from within as well from the forces of something that amounts to a kind of reactionary right-wing neo-Nazism. But we can’t even defend ourselves against that if we get sucked into a trap in the East.

Right now we are dealing with our own economic and culture change and it is quite painful. And we are extremely vulnerable because it seems our middle class is disappearing. It was the middle class that brought us the form of democracy that we have today.

Technology is moving at an accelerated pace, leaving millions with nothing productive to do.

There is a deep threat to western civilization as we know it.

We need to regroup at home in order to withstand the onslaught of the East.

The proposed building of a mosque or cultural center some blocks away from ground zero of 9/11 is not a threat in and of itself, probably, but it is a symbol nonetheless.

While I think constitutionally the backers of the mosque have every right to go ahead, I would hope some kind of compromise could be reached.

It may be that Islam poses no real threat to the West, but rather some of its factions or some who misuse its name do. But I have not seen enough evidence that such is the case. It seems Muslims are too quiescent in the debate on whether their religion is attempting to take over the West.

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ADD 2:

My newspaper tells me that the Imam who wants to build the mosque near the 9/11 ground zero is now saying that religious extremism is posing security threats all over the world — amen to that. Also there was a story about some American Muslims condemning Holocaust denial and anti-Semitism (they had just returned from visiting former death camps in Germany) – that’s encouraging.

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(Well of course we know good Christians want to be predominate, but they already are in the West — like it or not it is ingrained into our culture, even if you are not Christian.)

The U.S. and others in the West have certainly done things over the decades to bring on some animosity and resentment — kicking out Palestinians to create Israel, as an example (and I know it‘s a long and complicated story, really).

But overall the West has tried to do good, sending much foreign aid to nations of the Middle East and East and all over the world.

Come to think of it, we probably should not have tried to help Afghanistan all those years ago in fighting off the Soviets. In the first place they apparently did not really need our help. In the second place, what did we get? The 9/11 attack on us.

They used to say “East is East and West is West and never the twain shall meet.”

In this modern world that is not exactly true. But there is a divide and we need to keep up our end.

P.s.

I don’t know maybe that last sentence was a kind of mixed metaphor — I just go stream of consciousness sometimes, nearly all the time.

Peace should be the overriding goal, but Iran cannot be allowed to develop nukes…

A nation whose leaders frequently threaten Israel with annihilation and who attacks and even executes its own people in order to prevent free speech and democracy, and a nation who constantly makes threats against the United States, and the same nation whose current leadership once took American hostages and held them for months and paraded them blindfolded before the world should under no circumstances be allowed to develop nuclear weapons.

Actually no one should have ever developed them. But mix human curiosity, manifested by science, and the human penchant for war and it was inevitable.

Had the U.S. not been the first or had not at all developed the atom bomb someone else would have. The German Nazis were said to be close to it, and some even think Japan in time could have developed it. And of course the Soviet Union followed close on our heels in the nuclear arms race.

How the U.S. could have prevented other nations from getting the bomb is hard to see. Fortunately, most of the nations, not all, who now possess nuclear arms capabilities are at least nominally on the side of the U.S.

We don’t really know what happened to all the nukes in the dismantled Soviet Union, as far as I know. Don’t seem to hear much about China’s capabilities in that regard either, although we know that nation has a large arsenal of nukes. North Korea (that’s the half that is not on our side Sarah) gives us fits over nuclear arms development

(I have not addressed WMDs in general, to include chemical weapons, but whatever I say about nukes applies.)

While it is unfair that the U.S. would seek to prevent other nations from obtaining or developing nuclear weapons, our security may well depend upon it.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think so far Israel is the only nation who has successfully thwarted nuclear arms development by potential belligerents — first in Iraq and then in Syria, both by air raids (but would Israel have dared make such moves without the tacit approval — even if perhaps after the fact — of the U.S.?).

But just how we delicately or not-so-delicately go about preventing Iran from developing nuclear weapons is a hard question to answer.

With the latest report from what I understand is a highly respected UN nuclear watchdog agency that Iran may be closer than was thought to developing nuclear weapons (months? A few short years?), I sincerely hope somewhere in the depths of the Obama administration people are working on such contingencies (the quieter the better).

Then of course some speculate that we may be burned once again by going after something that apparently is not there after all and making quite a mess of it, ala Iraq and WMDs.

I have blogged before that it would seem far more practical to let Iran know in secret what our real position is — that is we will not tolerate the non-peaceful development of nuclear capabilities — and let it save face by deciding to forego the nuclear arms option.

It is said that it would be difficult to wipe out potential bomb building sites by air because they are well protected underground.

Also, sending in an armed force is all but out of the question. That sort of clumsy action is something we have been about too much of lo these past many years — and I do not mean to criticize the military — it’s the civilian leadership who gives them their marching orders.

But perhaps a combination of negotiation (but it has to be backed by the believable threat of power) stronger economic sanctions, and some type of confidential/ face saving conferences might work.

The aim should be for peace, not war. Iran’s Revolutionary Guard would like nothing better for the Great Satan to attack Iran outright so it could play on the sympathy of the world and particularly the part of the world who is not automatically fond of the U.S.

We should work diligently to not let that happen. But Iran should not be lulled into thinking that our desire for peace will win out over our desire for our own security.

It would be nice if the U.S. could help out the budding, but also foundering democracy movement in Iran, but really Iranians themselves need to take care of that, although I will say that at least in Iran where we are not really able to help at this time, there are at least people who seem to truly desire more of a western style democracy. Contrast that to Afghanistan where we are up to our necks in nation building, but where the populace tends to cling to old tribal ways.

And to go back to Iran. We do not want to, and probably can’t go in a take over Iran. We just want to make sure no more dangerous nut cases get the bomb.

As nutty and detestable as he is, Iran’s Ahmadinejad may have a point — but it’s not worth much…

Holocaust deniers are either liars or nut cases or both at the same time.

That said, Iran’s President Mamoud Ahmadinejad finally came up with the right argument, to a degree – not that the Holocaust (Hitler’s murder of some 6 million Jews – mostly Jews – during World War II) did not happen, but that it is one among many such events in history and that, in fact, things just as bad are happening right now.

But of course Ahmadinejad’s credibility is gone because in the past and probably still now, depending upon his audience, he has steadfastly denied that the Holocaust ever happened. There of course is far too much evidence (the Nazis loved to record their deeds in writing and in still photos and movies – and those who liberated the camps, not to mention the survivors, can testify as to what took place).

I hate to admit it, though, but he now, for the benefit of the American audience, makes a point I have always wondered about myself. As terrible as the Holocaust was, it was not the only such event to ever happen in history and genocide goes on today in places such as Darfur in Africa. And yet Hitler’s mass murder of Jews seems to get more attention and have more consequences than any of the other events. It accounted for the creation of the modern state of Israel through the collective guilt of the western world, which in turn has accounted for unrest in the Middle East for some 60 years.

Maybe one of the most troubling aspects of the Holocaust is that it took place in a highly civilized western nation (Germany) and the civilized nations it conquered. In effect, neighbors turned upon their own, or turned a blind eye to their fates, out of fear of the police state, our of jealousy, and out of some kind of rationalization that after all these people were of the wrong religion, the one that is blamed for killing Jesus.

And isn’t that the way? Religion always seems to lurk where murder and mayhem take place around the world. Stranger still, all three of the world’s major religions – Christianity, Judaism, and Islam preach peace but somehow seem to account for so much war and terrorism. Some religious leaders will explain that away by saying that it is just bad people using religion as an excuse, but many of those bad people call themselves religious leaders.

But getting back to Ahmadinejad, in my personal opinion, fellas like him and Gadfafy Duck or whatever his name is from Libya are so irrational and mean spirited that they should be largely ignored in serious discussions and should not be given a platform in serious events.

On the other hand, they need an eye kept on them.

Nut cases and evil people that they are, their actions can have consequences– Remember Adolf Hitler.

P.s.

I have not managed to get this blog mobile yet. Will be back out on the road, so unless I can manage to get a wireless connection, it may be a day or two until I post again or respond to any comments that might come my way.

P.s. P.s.

I think President Barack Obama sent the right message to the rest of the world at the UN the other day – to paraphrase, he said that while other nations have complained that the U.S. spent too many years going it alone in world affairs, they cannot sit back and now expect the U.S. to solve all the world’s problems (except I suppose the ones we may have created, but then again we need help on those too).

Struggle continues in Iran and change may be in the air, but the U.S. has to keep an eye on what is really important — nuclear capability

After blogging so much yesterday about the tumult in Iran and questioning in my last post as to what would happen there today, I feel compelled to write a few words today.

With the stranglehold on the free flow of information by the government there, it is quite difficult to get a clear picture of what is taking place or took place today (Sunday). I’ve read reports that there was an eerie silence on the streets and even more of a police presence and I have also read that there have been continued protests and continued violence. We know people have been beat up and that people have been killed (no clear figures on how many). And there have been arrests, some of those arrested were even in hospital beds reportedly. And militias or whatever they call themselves have reportedly broken into homes to go after or intimidate anyone suspected of dissenting from the government view.

And there is a split in the ruling clergy in this theocracy, as well as in the elected portion of the government.

Former Iranian president Hashemi Rafsanjani, who heads up two powerful clerical institutions, the Assembly of Experts and the Expediency Council, is being intimidated, or at least that must be the intent, with his daughter and other relatives arrested. I understand the relatives were released (not sure), but his daughter remains under arrest. She had participated in a rally for opposition figure Hossein Musavi.

Another former president has criticized the government too, I heard.

But I want to pull back and just say I wish the people there the best and hope that out of all of this that they get a better government and get rid of that nut case Amadinejad who glibly denies the Holocaust, even visiting the U.S. to do so. No matter what your religion is or whether you support or don’t support the Jewish nation, if you have any knowledge of the world at all you know that of course the Holocaust happened, and the eyewitness accounts plus the documentation and documentary film footage taken both by the perpetrators themselves and the allies when they liberated the camps prove the case (I know, some people say we never went to the moon – that footage was shot in Arizona or New Mexico).

However, even though what happens in Iran, thanks to modern rapid communication technology, does not stay in Iran, I still say the best we can do is offer moral support. The Iranian government knows the world is watching. I think it has lost what little credibility it ever had on the world stage, let alone domestically.

I would say the U.S. needs to keep its eye on the ball (or should I say bomb?). More important in all of this is making sure Iran or no other nation, that does not already have it, gets access to nuclear weapons or the ability to produce them. It’s just something we have to do for survival. The U.S. let the genie out of the bottle back in 1945. And although we can’t fully put it back in, we have to do what we can.

We lived for decades wondering whether between us, the U.S. and the Soviet Union, we would manage to destroy the world by some terrible mistake or miscalculation. But apparently the Soviets were not nut cases who would launch nukes with no concern whether it might end the world.

That does not seem to be the case for the nut cases out of the Middle East or over in North Korea.

While we always want to do what we can to support freedom everywhere, the overriding concern must be to save the world from nuclear annihilation.

We now have a government in Iran that we know for sure we cannot trust and has lost its legitimacy.

And we have a government in North Korea we cannot deal with.

Interestingly, even if the dissidents win out in Iran or get some type of accommodation, that does not resolve the nuke question. The dissidents want their freedom, but for all I know they might decide nukes would protect them.

Our message must be clear – no nukes. And we have to have the resolve to do what is necessary to back that up.

I applaud President Barack Obama’s diplomacy expertise – he’s amazingly won high praise in the Islamic world.

And while I am 100 percent for open or transparent government, as I have blogged before, on the nuclear issue, we would do better to say little, but let those who would do mischief know what our position is and then let action speak louder than words, if that becomes necessary.

But in the end, some things are not negotiable, unless we want to risk the end.

Iranian authorities: we held back Saturday (really?), but don’t try it again Sunday; expert says turmoil a big civil rights demonstration…

Never on Sunday? Things might have been rough in the confrontation between demonstrators and the authorities in Iran Saturday but the dissidents have been warned not to try it again — so will they today (Sunday)?

Read a report on the Time Magazine site that quoted the Tehran police chief, I think it was, who claimed that authorities held back somewhat Saturday, but do not plan to do so Sunday or in the future should dissidents continue to conduct protest demonstrations of any kind.

Seems like the the Iranian religious authorities, who run the government, are not all in agreement with each other. Even the Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is on shaky ground, I have read. The totalitarian government knows it has to clamp down hard on the protesters to maintain its authority, but is in jeopardy of losing its support if it creates a major bloodbath.

Some experts seem to think that the dissidents may be emboldened now that they have seen the elephant, so to speak. That is they may have lost some of their initial fear. Get folks mad enough and they lose some of their fear (even if the government has the guns).

Meanwhile, President Barack Obama seems to have been forced by the politics of the whole thing to take a somewhat more agressive tone against the Iranian government’s actions.

I began following the news early this (Saturday) morning. No one seems to know how many people may have been killed or hurt, but certainly there were casualties.

Through the night Saturday after the street protests, I understand, citizens have hollered out through the dark the slogan Allahu Akbar (God is great), ironically as they reportedly did during the revolution of 1979 when the Islamic revolution overthrew the secular (non-religious) government of the U.S.-imposed Shah of Iran. And now the Islamic-run government is threatened from within. These people have no beef with Allah (God), but instead those who claim to be his representative here on earth.

Interestingly they were reportedly also shouting “death to the dictator” and most interestingly. “death to the Ayatolla”.

And let’s don’t lose sight of the fact that not everyone by a longshot in Iran is against the present government. But apparently the current government did not have enough confidence in itself to run a free election. From what I read, they both stuffed ballot boxes and forbade a real count. Seems a strange way to go about things. Their fraud was too transparent. Why didn’t they go through the motions and then declare Ahmadinejad the winner as expected?

Opposition leader Hossein Mousavi as I understand it did not meet with authorities as they had offered today, probably because they had already closed the door on a new election as he has demanded. Who knows? maybe he is under arrest or house arrest anyway (don’t know). The Iranian government is working hard to prevent news from getting out. But modern computer technology and citizen journalists along with professional journalists are fighting back.

My favorite political cartoon is a protester standing up to a baton-wielding policeman and saying: “stop or I’ll tweet”!

What follows is my original post Saturday morning, plus several add ons:

ADD 6 (2:34 p.m.  PDT):  U.S. President Barack Obama is getting less neutral on Iran. He has now issued a statement in which he said in part: “We call of the Iranian government to stop all violent and unjust actions against its own people…”

ADD 5 (12:32 p.m. PDT): If I have my calculations right it is in the middle of the night (already early Sunday) in Iran and I don’t know what is happening at this time. I just know that demonstrators defied the government and there was violence — saw one scene on YouTube (of course, as they say, it was not vetted). I read one blog said to be out of Iran and describing cries in the night of  “Allahu akbar” (God is great) and “death to the dictator”  and even death to the Ayatollah. Now I don’t know if that blog was describing Saturday night or Friday night or both. Also, I make reference in this blog that the U.S. official position is neutral in all of this. But I should clarify that. President Barack Obama may still be holding to we won’t meddle, but he did make a statement in the last 24 hours that said in part to the Iranian government: “The Iranian government must understand that the world is watching…. the universal rights of assembly and free speech must be respected.” One insider blogger claimed that Joe Biden made him say it (convinced him, okay). Seriously, there is some indication of a slight change of stance on all of this by Obama (he is getting political pressure). But what I don’t get is certainly we don’t make China live up to the standards we are calling for in Iran and last time I checked China has a most favored nation status in trade and is our bank and we owe them one heck of a lot of money (think I just figured it out).

ADD 4 (10:09 a.m.): I’m reading on the web that the main opposition leader Hossein Musavi has vowed that he is ready for “martyrdom”. There are reports that some demonstrators are carrying copies of the Koran, sometimes wearing them on their heads, the idea being that will protect them. I also read one blog that said a policeman was attacking a woman and she said: “Why are you doing this? Are you not an Iranian”? Also heard an Iran expert Iranian professor  at an American college describe what is going on as not a revolution or counter revolution or even civil war, but a “civil rights” movement. It is interesting to me — and others have of course observed — that so many of the protesters are women. As we know, women are considered second-class citizens in Iran, as well as in most or all Islamic-controlled nations (and I would say extreme conservative Christians consider women second class as well and I have read where one Islamic woman said she would rather men be in charge so that they can take the blame — I think I have heard Christians or just other women say that or imply that as well). Interestingly, I think, the protesers are not necessarily protesting religious rule or religion — they just want more freedoms. We’re not getting a lot of reliable information, but I have read that there has been much violence and many deaths (and so far, I believe that would be violence primarily from the authorities inflicted upon demonstrators).

I probably won’t blog more on this until much later in the day. Have other things to do — but this is important stuff with implications on the whole world and people who long for or want to preserve freedom everywhere.

One more thing. It is hard to know actually how widespread this discontent is through Iranian society — certainly there are many layers with their own wants and needs and preferances in Iran. And as much as people there want freedom (or not), I doubt that they want meddling from the West. They’ve had plenty of that over the past many decades.

 ADD 3 (7:20 a.m. PDT): Several news sources, including the one-sided Iranian state sites, are reporting a blast at the shrine of the late Ayatohllah Rubollah Khomeini, with at least one death. One web site implied that it could have well been a suicide bomber working on behalf of the government to discredit the opposition by making it look like they are committing violence. It said the current Ayatollah made reference yesterday to such violence as a cause for authorities to crack down. Meanwhile, there are reports of police beating demonstrators and firing off tear gas and water cannon to disperse the crowds.

———–

It seems that the confrontation in Iran between the dissidents of last week’s presidential election and the authorities has begun, with reports this morning that several thousand demonstrators defied the Ayatollah’s order and marched on the streets in Tehran and have been met by thousands of both uniformed and plain clothes police who are reportedly using tear gas and water cannon to disperse them.

Now I guess few on the outside can really know what is going on because the government there has done its best to shut off all communication. That of course is proof in and of itself that the Iranian government is corrupt and illegitimate. But as I have blogged consistently, I don’t think this affair is officially any of the U.S.’s business, although of course the hearts of the freedom-loving world go out to oppressed peoples everywhere. I think our president, Barack Obama, has struck the right tone so far saying we will not meddle in the affairs of Iran, but at the same time saying that we support the right to free elections. Two resolutions passed late Friday, one each by both houses of congress, in support of the dissidents I think were unecessary and somewhat meaningless, in that what could we or should we do if things go far awry in Iran? As one commentator said: what do we do? Invade Iran and shoot bullets that only kill the oppressors but not the opposition? On the other hand, I suppose the resolutions – which I have not read, only heard reported about – were probably harmless and maybe do give some moral support. I must say if the reports I have seen within the past 15 minutes or so on the web are true, the dissidents have a lot of guts and must truly believe in their cause.

It’s 6:30 a.m. PDT (here on the U.S. west coast) as I write this line and I saw the first reports of demonstrators vs. authorities activity on the web at about 15 minutes ago. I got up about 5:30 a.m., eager to read the news and hopeful that a bloodbath will not occur, and also hopeful that some people power will have some effect on another of so many oppressive governments in the world.

I also think of the major change we made here a few months ago and thankfully without violence.

Going to go back and check the web for more news updates, plus check out my local newspaper for what is happening here in local affairs. Will blog more in a while.

ADD 1: Not the same circumstances, but I can’t help but think about all the uproar back in the mid 1950s when the U.S. failed to support the Hungarian uprising when some thought we should have stood up to communism then and there. That short-lived uprising was crushed by Soviet tanks. Decades later people power fueled and augmented by modern communication won out and with little violence. That is why the tyrannical Iranian government forces are working so hard to keep a lid on communication.

ADD 2: I should have noted that there have been reports of people chanting “Death to the dictator” and “death to the dictatorship”. If that is meant to be literal, and what else could it mean? that sounds ominous (those slogans were reportedly chanted earlier the week too, I recall). Up until now and maybe even now the demonstrators have been for the most part peaceful with the violence done on the part of the govenment and its supporters, as far as I know.

The unyielding and corrupt theocracy in Iran is a clue to what would happen if the religious right had its way in the U.S.

The only thing about which that I agree with the Ayatollah is that other nations, the U.S. in particular, should stay of Iran’s business (that is except for making sure they don’t get the bomb).

I say let them stew in their own juices. If the dissidents or whatever you call them can make headway in improving upon what semblance of democracy is present in Iran I say go for it, more power to them – just don’t get us involved (and I doubt that they would want our help).

So it’s fairly obvious by now, to make an understatement, that the presidential vote in Iran last week was a sham (instant results in counting millions of hand ballots). And today I read that Ayatollah Ali Khamenei after blessing the results, then taking back his blessing by offering to have the government conduct some type of re-count (or partial re-count?), as a token accommodation to the opposition, now has re-blessed the elections and threatened to arrest anyone who disagrees and has forbade further demonstrations (and there have been reports that opposition members had already been arrested).

What happened to the re-count? Then again how would the government have conducted a re-count if it never conducted a count in the first place?

The last I heard the clergy was supposed to meet with the opposition Saturday, but now that the supreme leader has made it clear that it is either his way or the highway (to hell, or heaven, I suppose), what would be the point?

Iran has a strange system of government with supposedly democratic elections along with the power of the clergy to cancel out anything and everything done by supposedly elected leaders and the voters. It’s called a theocracy. It’s called a dictatorship.

But from what I understand from reading everything I can recently about the workings of politics in Iran most of the people there are quite happy to submit to the rule of religious despots. Even those who want more freedoms and want their votes to count still probably want the ultimate authority to be with the clergy – it’s all part of Islam.

And that folks – the way things work in Iran – might well be what it would be like here in the U.S. if the religious right were to ever completely have its way.

The American religious right likes to imply and is some cases claims outright that President Barack Obama is a secret Muslim, waiting for when the time is just right to declare the U.S. an Islamic republic. I doubt he will, but if he were to do that, what would be the difference between an “Islamic Republic” and a “Christian Republic”? Neither one has tolerance for divergent points of view. And who sets those points of view?

Religious leaders would have you believe that it is all written in the good book – the Holy (Christian) Bible or the Koran, for example (there are other religions and holy books).

Trouble is, the last I checked those books were printed and in fact written by mere mortals, even if they were done with divine inspiration.

I can’t speak for the other books, but one only has to read a little in the Holy Bible and realize that it is open to wide interpretation, with heavy use of symbolism and parables and such. There’s also confusion because it has been interpreted from more than one ancient language. Those who will tell you that certain passages mean a certain thing and that there is no other meaning will also offer their proof by saying such things as it is so because they know it to be and that they have faith and that only if you would have faith you would agree with them.

Why could one not counter that he or she believes a different thing and that only if they all had faith everyone would believe likewise?

There are people who cite visions, but that is generally considered dubious, because visions and the performance of miracles are apparently limited to ancient history (well sometimes it is accepted when someone claims they had a vision as long as they leave everyone the wiggle room that they only meant such in some kind of figurative way, that is you are not compelled to think they actually saw a parting of the heavens, but just felt strongly at the moment).

(And I offer this disclosure: no I did not have a vision, but although I have not actively practiced religion in my life, having been brought up by well meaning and well behaved non-believers, I am open to it, have prayed and have been prayed for by many – my sincere thanks.)

Getting back to Iran, what is going on there is fascinating and it seems a momentous confrontation is brewing for Saturday (or not) what with the Ayatollah laying down the gauntlet.

And if I may, I pray that it not all end in some type of bloodbath, and I also pray that the will of the people wins out in Iran. But again, that is entirely their business.